Transcript
WEBVTT
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Folks welcome back to the ageless athlete podcast.
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This is your host Kush Condell.
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Well, Broadcasting from San Francisco, California.
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Bringing you stories of age, defying, genre, defying adventure athletes.
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Doing extraordinary things.
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In the outdoors.
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It's gorgeous here today.
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Spent some time at the beach this morning with my cute pup Rodger, and I am feeling quite fortified.
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Are you ready to be inspired today on ageless athlete?
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We have a true Renaissance woman, Caroline pod.
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A former firefighter who battled blazes in San Francisco, California.
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Caroline's adventurous spirit has taken her from the remote landscapes of Siberia to the dizzying Heights of the Bolivian Andes.
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braving blizzards on Denali.
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Her tourist for new experiences led her to become a pilot.
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Uh, surfer and even of in Walker, And as an author, she has spent numerous books, including the New York times bestseller.
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The gutsy girl.
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And our latest, incredible book.
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Def bride.
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Which explores the transformative power of outer adventures.
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For women as the age.
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We will be diving into her.
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Beautiful journey.
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The inspiring women she's met and how getting outside can redefine our expectations and lead to a more fulfilling life.
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So buckle up and get ready for an exciting conversation with the one and only Caroline Paul.
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I really appreciate you tuning in today.
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If you have enjoyed the journey so far would love it.
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If you dropped a little rating.
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Click the star icon and apple podcast or wherever else, like Spotify, you listen to your body.
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Trust me, it really helps get the word out and it helps support the show.
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Now onwards with the pot.
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It's rote.
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Hi Caroline.
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Great to have you on the show.
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Can you tell us where are you right now?
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Where are you from?
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And what did you have for breakfast today?
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Oh, hi, Kush.
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I'm so psyched to be on the show.
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I am in San Francisco.
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I had coffee this morning and.
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I'm from the East Coast.
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I was born in New York City.
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but I'm a New Englander at heart.
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Northwest corner of Connecticut.
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Very rural.
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From the right coast to the best coast.
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I just discovered your lovely book, Tough Broad, and I've been, hooked.
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I want to start off by asking you to take us back to the time you rode into Yosemite on an electric skateboard.
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I've traveled through the gate, check at Yosemite National Park, numerous, I don't know, maybe a hundred times over the last 15 or so years, but, you blew my mind with your creativity in getting past the entry system.
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Would you mind giving us a peek into what transpired that day?
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Yeah, I'll quickly tell you I was going actually for my first interview for Tough Broad, and I got to the gate and it was the pandemic.
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And so there were the rules had changed and you needed a reservation, which was fine.
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I, I had the, my friend had sent me the reservation.
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It was on my phone, but the very young ranger said, Oh no, no, your name has to be on the reservation or you can't bring your car in.
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And I said, well, wow.
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Okay.
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Well, can I walk?
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And she's like, no, it's nine miles to the Valley.
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And I remembered that I had my one wheel in the trunk of my car and my one wheel for those of you don't know is an electric skateboard it looks more like it's like a snowboard with a big wheel in the middle.
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and I asked her, I said, well, can I use my, my one wheel, my electric skateboard?
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And she was.
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Shocked because she had just seen my age, which was at the time, 57 and, you know, I drive a very stayed, Prius.
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she had obviously made a lot of assumptions about me.
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And one of them was not that I had a one wheel in my trunk and that I could ride it.
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she asked her supervisor and the supervisor like, yeah, I mean, she can't bring her car in, but yeah, the human can go, which I thought was so funny.
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But I get it.
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It's, it's all about traffic, I guess.
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Anyway, so I went and I got on my one wheel and I one wheeled into the valley and it was beautiful.
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It was amazing experience.
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I keep my one wheel in my car for these, these, sort of eventualities, which never really come up and it's just often that I have some free time and I see like a little open space or a little bike trail and I want to get on it.
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And this time it really came in handy, but it was a great opening to the book because what it showed was, you know, Sort of our implicit assumptions about what people, what women especially can and cannot do after a certain age.
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I think if I had been a man, they would have been maybe a tiny bit surprised, but not really.
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But because I was a 57 year old woman, I really sort of all the rangers gathered around when I came back up in my one wheel.
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You know, to get permission to then go, go down the gate.
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They were asking me a ton of questions about the one wheel, but I could tell there were a lot of questions in their head about me.
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thing and the beautiful thing.
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And then when I say this in the book was what I inside, I was laughing the whole time because the person I was meeting in Yosemite Valley was about my age too.
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And she was way radder than me because she was about to base jump off of.
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of El Cap, and that's why I was going.
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I was going to interview her and also not base jump with her because that was the only, um, adventure I did not do in this book.
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by the way, the subtitle of the book is really explains the book.
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if that beginning has not, which is, it's called tough broad, but the subtitle is from boogie boarding to wing walking, how outdoor adventure improves our lives as we age.
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I see electric skateboards in San Francisco all the time and, uh, they're more common here, I guess, than the, uh, the hallowed roads of Yosemite National Park.
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But I think even here I'll have to be careful on, uh, on what I think about the person riding that skateboard
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you know, the truth is you won't see a lot of women my age riding them.
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And I knew that.
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And that's actually why I wrote the book.
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I mean, I, this book came out of being on my skateboard and looking around and there were no women my age.
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I could see a couple of men my age and also when I was on my surfboard, I'd look around in, especially when it was winter surf and I see no, no women my age and no women older.
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And there were men my age and older hmm.
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when I flew my experimental planes, there was just hardly any women doing it, but again, men, my age and older.
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So I just thought, Oh, well, what's going on here?
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Is there something I don't know?
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Is there something I'm not supposed to be doing anymore?
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And I didn't want to give up my outdoor adventure life.
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And I had a feeling though, that it was actually key to fulfilling aging.
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So the book is really a quest, more than than my other books, which have been more statements, uh, or opinions.
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And this is a quest I actually don't know.
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And I do a lot of, a lot of research.
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you have been breaking barriers and you have been dropping jaws through this quest of yours.
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I'm so excited and humbled to have you, join us today.
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I'm inspired, but yeah, just going back to that little story, curious, where do you get this?
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You know, this, this chutzpah as well most people who were raised in this country, in the US, most people, like you said, who might be around your age, they would not have thought to do that.
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I come from a country, I was raised in India and people are always looking for ways to get around.
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So I would not be as surprised if people would try and find ways to abandon their cars and get on their bicycles or, or whatnot.
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what is it about your personality that,
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Pushes you to challenge convention or traditional thinking.
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I just think that I had my one wheel in the back of my car because I always wanted an opportunity to get on it.
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It's an opportunity to get outside and explore something.
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So it was more my sort of exploratory mindset, I guess, I grew up in the, I was born in 63.
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Those of us born in the sixties and grew, who grew up in the seventies really were used to kind of a feral childhood.
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it was pretty much a get on your bike and come back at dark kind of thing.
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And we lived in the country for most of our young lives.
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I have an identical twin and a younger brother.
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And that's what we did.
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We got on our bikes and we went swimming.
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We've got on our bikes or we, you know, we went sledding.
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We went, skating.
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We did things outside to pass the day.
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And so it's kind of second nature.
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Have you always been.
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Outdoorsy and an adventurous, any favorite story of you growing up that, was perhaps, defining as you grew up and continue pursuing this life of, uh, adventure.
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Yeah.
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I don't know where, I got this idea that adventure was a value that I wanted to pursue, except for that.
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It was just, we did grow up in the country and it was clearly the way to have fun.
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Also we had national geographics that arrived at our house every month, I think it is.
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And they were those yellow spined magazines that everybody, many people.
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That I knew had and then we'd keep them and line them up on the shelf.
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So there are all these back issues going back years.
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And they were kind of the internet for us.
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And in it were lots of adventurers.
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And it just looked like the exciting life that I wanted to have.
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You know, my parents were not outdoorsy.
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But what they did do for us, is that they wanted us to be well rounded.
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It's not even that they wanted us to be brave or resilient or learn risk assessment like I think parents might do now.
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Those weren't part of the vocabulary.
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They wanted us to go outside and do things because they thought it would make us more social.
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It would, uh, get us out of the house and it would just make us more well rounded that when we were adults, we could pick and choose what we'd liked it because they had given us, you know, all these options.
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We also learned the flute and we also went to a church again, not because they were specifically religious, but they wanted to give us the choice later.
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So they laid that groundwork.
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So we got lucky that way, but I will say that my siblings are not like me.
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They don't live.
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An outdoor adventure life like I do though.
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They both love the outdoors.
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Uh, they don't have a practice of adventure, my sister walks and she swims outside.
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She does lots of open water swims, but yeah, so it's just sort of a haphazard intersection of.
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I couldn't really tell you how, but, I wanted to live a life of adventure.
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I find a little parallel here.
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I was fortunate as well, where my parents also exposed me to, uh, a myriad assortment of things, including.
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Sending me to summer classes to do artsy things, including backpacking And I don't think they knew which would stick.
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the, uh, outdoorsy, Sports things stuck with me seems to me from what I have been learning about you, that you were also quite competitive.
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I read about, uh, how you were attempting to set the Guinness record.
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I'm curious, you know, in that spectrum of, adventure and, sports, where do you think is your, happy medium?
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not that competitive, actually.
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I mean, I think when I was young, I had a lot to prove, and so we all want to be first, and we all want to be noticed.
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And I have an identical twin who's very, very competent at pretty much everything, so, but neither of us want to be better than the other.
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But we also didn't want to be outdone by the other.
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So it was this really crazy, I mean, the way I describe my childhood with my twin is that we were both really good swimmers.
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I mean, relatively speaking in our tiny town, we were on the swim team and we would do, first of all, we would not swim against each other.
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We would, we pick different strokes, but we would always work out extra after practice.
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And we would swim across the lake and back, which is about a mile and a half.
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we were like 11 or 10 when we did this and routinely we'd stop in the middle of the lake and yell at the other one because they weren't swimming the straight line that we needed them to swim, which meant that if they were serpentining at all, they were getting more of a workout than we were and we couldn't have that.
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Like we had to be exactly equal because there was always this sense of like, you want to keep up with her.
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But you, you know, but you don't, you kind of want to be better, but you don't really want to be better.
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that would also hard.
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It was just this really fine line.
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I don't really think of myself as competitive, but again, I was always seeking exhilaration.
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So I guess when you try to set a world record because you want to be in the Guinness book of world records, which by the way, every kid I grew up with wanted to be in, was, it was, And you would flip through the pictures and see the person with the longest fingernails or the, you know, tallest person in the world.
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I mean, we just thought it was fascinating.
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So to be in, it would be just a kind of a, a stake in the ground, like something that really bragging rights.
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If you were, you know, a kid, I don't know if that counts as competition.
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I mean, I definitely did sports and I happen to be okay at them.
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Wasn't, you know, honestly, I wasn't super great, but I was very dogged.
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Like I trained, I did extra work in order to.
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So that in that way, I think sports are great, but I don't really do competitive sports anymore.
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Once I got out of school.
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that's not true.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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That's not When I was at Stanford, I did try out for the luge team.
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which is a competitive sport.
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And I think everyone knows what it is now, but back in 1985, nobody knew what luge was, it was, it was an obscure sledding sport where you lay on your back and you went down a, you know, a ramp, a shoot.
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And, uh, so I did do that after college for a little while, made the national team left.
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No, no, it's not.
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Wow.
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I promise.
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I a good luger.
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I crashed all the time, and that was my nickname, actually.
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Crash, I really wanted to make the Olympics.
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I just thought the Olympics were the coolest thing ever, and I had no skills, so I simply picked a sport where there were hardly anybody doing it, that's actually the key to my success in life, is I just find a niche very few people are in, and then of course, you know, you're always in the top 10, because there's really only 10 of you.
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you found these niches, but maybe these niches also came to you because maybe there was this thing.
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natural aptitude you had for excelling in certain ways.
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Your response made me go down memory lane in two ways.
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One is, I am, maybe my generation we'd loved the Guinness book of records.
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And then next.
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I discovered accidentally over the last few days that your twin starred in one of my favorite TV shows from the 90s Nobody I asked here seems to know Baywatch for some reason, but I and my friends, we were huge fans.
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So,
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Okay.
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So this is the hilarious part about that is both my twin sister and I were obsessed with the Guinness Book of World Records.
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So I attempted on my own.
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Well, actually with a friend, but not with my twin sister when I was, I think, 13, 14, 15, something like that My sister actually broke a record because she was on Baywatch, which was the most watched show in the world at the time.
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And it made the Guinness book of world records.
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And don't you know that she logs that over me I think it's been broken since, but nevertheless, she was in.
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The lauded book.
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well, she was breaking records and Caroline, you are, You're winning minds and you're inspiring a generation.
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moving on, you took your Stanford degree and your childhood of seeking adventure and then you became a firefighter in your 20s.
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What prompted you to do that?
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From what I could tell, your parents had white collar jobs.
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And your sister was a TV star and you took on this, slightly off the beaten path, profession
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I fell into it.
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I was a journalist by then and I was just, let's see, it was, I had been working odd jobs and I was volunteering at KPFA here in Berkeley I was the morning news anchor and there were all these stories come across my desk about the fire department at the time, which was like 1986 to 87.
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and how racist and sexist they were.
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And they were, under a court order actually.
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And they were just admitting their first women.
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They had a class of five.
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there was a new test coming up and I decided I would go take the test, but only as an undercover reporter.
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And I would ferret out racism and sexism because, you cannot ferret out racism and sexism in like a three hour test.
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It's just not the way racism and sexism works.
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That's why it's so insidious and powerful.
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It's woven way more deeply into institutions, but I was young and dumb and I took this test and I passed the first part and then I kept passing every single one.
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And by the end, they said, you've, you're now in.
00:17:40.632 --> 00:17:55.060
there was no story because there was no overt racism and sexism that I could talk about and I made it and I actually was so stunned and here's, here's where my own prejudices came up is it was probably my own classist prejudice.
00:17:55.611 --> 00:18:02.800
I couldn't see myself as a firefighter as a blue collar worker, and I didn't want my dad who had paid for my education.
00:18:03.250 --> 00:18:03.911
I just felt.
00:18:04.395 --> 00:18:08.776
But what I did is I deferred and then I went off and did some adventures.
00:18:09.036 --> 00:18:16.046
I think I quit my job at the time and then did some adventures and came back and the 1989 earthquake happened and I was here for that.
00:18:16.066 --> 00:18:24.385
And I started to read all the stories of bravery and compassion and smarts that the San Francisco fire men showed.
00:18:24.625 --> 00:18:33.316
And I realized, Oh, come on, like you are as narrow minded as you're claiming they are by just painting them with this broad brush.
00:18:33.316 --> 00:18:43.506
It's a terrible institution and also by then I'd really kind of fallen in love with what firefighting was, which was basically getting paid for adventure, which is why I wanted to be a journalist in the first place.
00:18:43.986 --> 00:18:47.006
So, I call back the department and I said, I'd like to take the job and.
00:18:47.490 --> 00:18:52.131
So I went in, uh, it was the 15th woman and there were 1500 men.
00:18:52.400 --> 00:19:01.608
I'm so lucky because it was an amazing job with really, uh, incredible people, brave people, honorable people, some bad people, but of course that's the way it is everywhere.
00:19:02.038 --> 00:19:04.548
and it was, uh, really a coming of age for me,
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:09.119
sounds like quite, quite the incredible coming of age story.
00:19:09.555 --> 00:19:20.356
What I'm sensing about you a little bit is you don't just, when you think about, people doing different things, extraordinary things, you're not content by just.
00:19:20.846 --> 00:19:23.007
hearing about them or reading about them.
00:19:23.497 --> 00:19:32.586
Maybe your personality calls for you to go and seek and try and experience those things yourself, talking about your book.
00:19:32.586 --> 00:19:43.731
Now that the heroes, or shall I say the she ros that you write about, it's full of these heartwarming stories, you know, full of, Full of these people of all backgrounds.
00:19:44.741 --> 00:19:49.775
Where did you go to find these Renaissance women?
